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Home remodel and going to build Atmos system. 5.1.4
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meford massachussets
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March 11, 2018 - 6:42 pm
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hello everyone. I am remodeling my home and eventually when the dust settles I am going to put together an Atmos system. I have 4 factory made speakers and I built a center channel to match since the factory is no longer in business. I am using ADS L1290/2s for my 5 speakers and going to use 4 more on the ceiling. I have a powered sub. I need some advice on hanging the ceiling speakers. I am gutting everything down to the studs and ceiling joists so I am able to reinforce existing structure, and am going to do new construction to add a 3rd floor. Should I just hang original factory cabinets or make smaller lighter ones. I believe I can cut some of the height out of the original cabinets, the bottom area is empty on the original cabinets and I think the height was to raise the woofers up to help with floor reflections. Also to get the tweeter at ear level when in a seated position. Could shorten the cabinets without effecting T/S parameters. Make them lighter and hang them on the ceiling. They have a wide dispersion and exhibit off axis response acceptable for Dolby specifications.

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March 15, 2018 - 6:43 am
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T/S? If I understand you correctly your considering putting boxed speakers, possibly building a new enclosure, in the ceiling. Are they ported or not? I wouldn’t recommend changing the original box as speakers (of any quality) are designed for the correct enclosure, and if ported, for that specific point, as well as requiring space. Generally speakers are designed to be open or closed, either way, changing the box is a no go, so I’ve been told… unless your an acoustic engineer.

Is there a reason you just don’t match a similar rated speaker for your ceilings (ie. buy speakers specifically for the job?). I’m also building and simply going for ceiling speakers with the same impeadance, same woofer size and similar sensitivity to my surrounds.

Even if you decided to ceiling mount factory boxed speakers your setting them upside down… I’m sure (please correct me if I’m wrong) that ceiling speakers are designed to operate this way, and normal speakers not so much.

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meford massachussets
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March 18, 2018 - 1:13 pm
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http://www.mh-audio.nl/spk_calc.asp
https://www.eminence.com/suppo…..aker-data/
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/te…..elines.pdf

Please read the data on these links. My speakers are sealed not ported. I guess that makes them acoustic suspension. If I design a cabinet for the ceiling it would still contain all the inside volume as the originals. Just not as long as the originals. They exhibit a very wide off axis response, so setting up properly according to Dolby will give me a very nice sound. All the speakers should be the same. Drivers, crossovers. Just matching size and impedance won’t give you the same characteristics. Matching timbre helps as well. Close to the same is ok but the same period gives a seamless illusion of being enveloped equally.

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March 18, 2018 - 2:16 pm
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A, What size room and volume will you be using for this application? I am hopeful you are paying as much attention to your room as you are your electronics. Matching speaker timbres will not matter in the wrong size and volume room along with added blurring and smearing from room distortions. First rule of acoustics is do no harm.

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March 19, 2018 - 4:34 am
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alkaloid said
http://www.mh-audio.nl/spk_calc.asp
https://www.eminence.com/suppo…..aker-data/
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/te…..elines.pdf

Please read the data on these links. My speakers are sealed not ported. I guess that makes them acoustic suspension. If I design a cabinet for the ceiling it would still contain all the inside volume as the originals. Just not as long as the originals. They exhibit a very wide off axis response, so setting up properly according to Dolby will give me a very nice sound. All the speakers should be the same. Drivers, crossovers. Just matching size and impedance won’t give you the same characteristics. Matching timbre helps as well. Close to the same is ok but the same period gives a seamless illusion of being enveloped equally.  

Ok, so you have the right calculations for the job, only ensure that it’s only volume that matters. Speakers often use different shapes to ensure the right sound as well

+1 Dennis comment, I have a $10,000 System in a terrible room, and a $2000 System in my bedroom (right dimensions). I spend most of my time in my bedroom as it sounds sooooo much better. Whatever you do, try it out before you commit to your install.

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meford massachussets
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March 20, 2018 - 7:38 pm
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Dennis Foley said
A, What size room and volume will you be using for this application? I am hopeful you are paying as much attention to your room as you are your electronics. Matching speaker timbres will not matter in the wrong size and volume room along with added blurring and smearing from room distortions. First rule of acoustics is do no harm.  

Hi Dennis

Love your stuff on YouTube.

Unfortunately I am doing an entire remodel on a 2 family home. The first floor is about 3 months away from being done, and we are living on the second floor now and will move downstairs to do the second and adding an entire third floor for bedrooms. When all said and done we will move back upstairs and rent out the first floor to help pay down the equity loan. I am going to have my theater on the second floor, it is going to be an entire open floor plan. We will have a giant kitchen with a large pantry on one end, a bathroom dividing my theater-living room and a stairway going up to the new third floor bedrooms. I could send a pdf of the floor plan somehow. I don’t know if I could post a pic on this forum. I was planning on learning as much as I could by reading, and adding Roxul in the floors, walls and ceiling to help cut some of the sound down for the tenants. I am using Roxul in the first floor in the outside, inside walls and the ceiling as well as sound board on the ceiling and 5/8s drywall. Can’t afford to entirely decouple everything. Upstairs besides the Roxul and soundboard, I will be putting a very thick pad and rug on the floor and add some absorption panels for reflections as well as diffusion. Of course I am not a mathematician and have no training so to learn how to get the correct decay rate for the room I am going to need a lot of learning. My equipment is all ADS L1290/2 speakers in a 5.1.4 Atmos set up. I am using an Anthem P5 Statement to drive the floor speakers and 2 Nikko Alpha 440s for the ceiling speakers. My pre pro is an Anthem AVM60 and has a great room correction system. i have been into music and movies since the Beatles first hit the radio. i started out with mono in a console record player containing one large 12 inch speaker. First taste of surround was quadraphonic. Was addicted right off. First theater experience was a Yamaha DSP1. using 2 different stereo systems with 4 large floor standing speakers. I eventually got a center channel then HI FI vhs, and then Laser Disc, then DVD and my first AVR. Then Blu ray and a better AVR. And my first sub.
I always noticed I could only go so loud and then the room would get boomy. I first thought maybe not enough power, or poor damping factor. I tried equalization, experimenting with the crossover points, running downward sweeps and some very low signals in an A-B loop to get the room as good as I could. I did get it pretty good except for the bass. I then got much more power and the ARC system made an incredible improvement. I was able to play a little louder and the boom in the room was significantly reduced. I think I can do even better with some room treatment. All this was done in a terrible room with no rug, hardwood floors.windows. stairwell, and smooth drywall painted walls. Can’t get much worse for huge echo reflections and slow decay rate. No absorption anywhere. I know with an open floor plan it will be hard to get it right but I at least want to get it the best it can be. My favorite magazine at the moment just changed their name to include a lot more articles on custom home theater , Wide Screen Review. I wish I could afford to hire you and save myself a big pain in the you know where. As more and more enthusiasts start approaching the room you are going to be a very busy man.

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meford massachussets
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March 20, 2018 - 7:48 pm
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Forgot to tell you I was planning to add IsoAcoustics Aperta 200s on the bottom of the 4 floor speakers to help with some resonance and will get a stand for my HSU VTF-3 MK4 sub.

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